Sunday, April 10, 2005

Starting now!

I want to stop for a second to clarify my thoughts for a while.I don't want it to sound like I believe that God does not punnish. I believe that God is our judge who is just. I believe His wrath must be satisfied. I am seeing it, God's wrath, as a natural consequense. look at us. We, though our sins are forgiven still pay the consequence for the things we do. When I, a forgiven man, Hit someone elses car I have to pay for it. If I speed I'll get pulled over and pay for it.

"38 and in his teaching he said, Beware of the scribes, who DESIRE to walk in long robes, and to have salutations in the marketplaces, 39and chief seats in the synagogues, and chief places at feasts: 40they that devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayers; these shall receive greater CONDEMNATION (or punnishment NIV)." Mark 12:38-40 ASV

God must condemn people. If someone is pursuing The kingdom of God, beuty, peace, good, love, etc. They'll live in it. The punnishment for seeking outside God's glory (His full character, beuty, peace, good, love, etc.) They'll be punnished, they'll get exactally what they lived for. See, Crist payed our price our punnishment so we would not be bound to eternal punnishment. No one is bound to their sin. HELL IS HERE. If you pursue "Hell" you'll fall right into it and that's where you'll be forever, starting now. If you pusue Heaven you're as good as there and that's where youll be forever. Starting now!

6 comments:

Danny said...

The question that I would have then is, "What does Jesus have to do with it?" Is believing something about Jesus a prerequisite for entering into the kingdom starting now?

WES ELLIS said...

Good question danny. I Have struggled with this one too. In scriptures it sounds like knowlege of Christ has alot to everything to do with salvation. I'll answer with another question.

[can you pursue all the things I talked about, good, beuty, Heaven, without Pursuing jesus?]

I don't think so. I still have a little trouble with the whole nature of "pursuing" Jesus, I mean there seems that in pursuing Jesus you have to come to an intelectual decision about who He is. But in the end all our good is in Christ. If this blog is about finding "whatever is good" it has to be about finding Jesus. For He is "the good" amung us.

Danny said...

Thanks for the response. I would argue that what you're saying is the first step to universalism. Not the type of universalism that says all go to heaven, but the type that says "you get what you deserve."

This would be parting from my undestanding of orthodox Christianity. It sounds to me like you are embracing more of an Egyptian Osrisis type afterlife. If your heart is heavier than a feather, then you don't get into the afterlife.

I'm not even sure that what you're saying is within the realm of Christianity. It sounds to me like you are taking Jesus out and replacing him with "good." What do you think?

WES ELLIS said...

I did say. "If this blog is about finding 'whatever is good' it has to be about finding Jesus."

You are right on one thing, I am not usually convicted of being "orthodox." I will say, though, that I can never part Jesus from this theology. I am in pursute of Jesus. I am simply trying to emphesise that "good" is what we are created for, and Jesus is "good." the bible says
"And he will answer, ‘I assure you, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing me." Matt 25:45
If you are refusing to do good you are refusing Christ himself.
Now we cannot simply say that if you do good deeds you will enter the Kingdom. That is outright unbiblical and can therefore not be accepted by a bible believing Christ follower. Your "good deeds" builds is a man made kingdom. Yes you will get what you deserve for God is just. The only pursute in which there is grace enough for you to get beyond that which you deserve, is the pursute of Jesus Christ.

We must understand that The Kingdom of God is His kingdom. It is Christ's Kingdom so He is King. remember "You cannot serve two masters" so if you are not "for [Him you are] against Him." We all deserve "Hell" for "our rightouseness is as filthy rags" God's grace is one that allows us to enter a perfect Kingdom. Not one we built by man but one built by God. "Our rightouseness" builds for us a filthy kingdom, Hell. Pursue the perfect Kingdom. Pursue Jesus and do "good deeds" inside the Kingdom for "the least of these." The defining mark of a Christian must be Love for to pursue Jesus is to pursue love. But the pursute of love is a farse unless it is in Christ, For He is love.

"Don’t just pretend that you love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Stand on the side of the good. Love each other with genuine affection, and take delight in honoring each other."
Romans 12:9-10

Danny said...

If people get what they deserve: What does Gandhi deserve? What about those who are good people who pursue the bettering of the world around them but do not believe in God?

WES ELLIS said...

Well romans 10 makes it sound like there has to be some level of knowlege for someone to believe and you must believe to be saved. I understand there's alot to the whole believing concept.
I did say "Now we cannot simply say that if you do good deeds you will enter the Kingdom." so It just depends on weather or not Ghandi was pursuing God, if not he will not recieve the Grace that comes with the pursute of God. I'm still trying to understand it. I have a very messy theology and I think any responseble person has to say the same thing.