tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11928317.post114077368453923331..comments2024-01-29T14:24:46.852-05:00Comments on Wes Ellis: Our ministrywellis68http://www.blogger.com/profile/06087588494600746854noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11928317.post-1140975742010756622006-02-26T12:42:00.000-05:002006-02-26T12:42:00.000-05:00Jason,Our hope is not to re-define anything rather...Jason,<BR/>Our hope is not to re-define anything rather it is to re-examine and ind the right definition, the deinition that's always been there but we've missed. I don't see how the verses you used prove anything contradictory to what Mike and I have been saying. The word T'shuva means "return." It is to return to the way God intended us to live and be. What do you disagree with?wellis68https://www.blogger.com/profile/06087588494600746854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11928317.post-1140912850535256242006-02-25T19:14:00.000-05:002006-02-25T19:14:00.000-05:00I must have missed something, I have only just bre...I must have missed something, I have only just breezed through some comments but I know Jesus' first public ministry words echoed John the Baptist's "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." All I am saying is it must be a Both/And ministry. Christian witness is not just "REPENT!" but it is also feeding, healing, setting free, etc. Is that not correct Jason?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11928317.post-1140846353284415862006-02-25T00:45:00.000-05:002006-02-25T00:45:00.000-05:00Bingo Mike!You hit the nail on the head. Thanks fo...Bingo Mike!<BR/>You hit the nail on the head. Thanks for the great thoughts!<BR/>Shalom <BR/>Weswellis68https://www.blogger.com/profile/06087588494600746854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11928317.post-1140836659163453822006-02-24T22:04:00.000-05:002006-02-24T22:04:00.000-05:00Jesus first and formost mission is to usher in the...Jesus first and formost mission is to usher in the Kingdom of God. It is his first sermon -Repent and believe! The Kingdom of God is at hand.<BR/><BR/>A little phrase I am teaching others to say: "The Kingdom of God is all about how the world is ordered. It is a new world order with God reigning as the King. So world order becomes the issue for us as it was for Jesus.<BR/><BR/>Wisdom is all about seeing connections. Understanding the way things are connected and/or should be connected has great significance for world order.<BR/><BR/>As for "Repent and believe", the phrase is very much related in that at the time Jesus preached it, Israel was in disorder. They were wanting to bring a Jewish style order to the world, but they were really just bringing a Jewish version of Rome -as in kill your enemies and love your friends (maybe). Actually they were not loving each other very well either, and they were the core of God's plan of redemption. So Jesus calls them to repent.<BR/><BR/>N.T. Wright points out a very interesting and obscure little story in Josephus about the phrase "Repent and believe" in his book THE CHALLENGE OF JESUS. There Josephus goes to a young hot-headed rebel leader in Galilee who is starting a rebellion of killing against Rome. In an effort to broker a peace deal between Rome and the rebels, Josephus tells the young rebel leader, "Repent and believe in me." In doing so he is not suggesting that the rebel leader give up some private sin like lust or greed or homosexuality etc. He is effectively saying, trust me to get you a better deal with the Romans than the headlong destruction you are asking for by picking this fight.<BR/><BR/>This colors our understanding of the phrase and the Kingdom message that goes with it. You cannot usher in God's Kingdom by force, manipulation or killing. It is ushered in with love. Love orders the world, not arrogance, not egotism, not ethnicism, not manipulation, force, killing etc. Love does. And not just any love, but sacrificial image bearing love devoted to YHWH and each other.<BR/><BR/>Many blessings...Agent Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17797031158032033042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11928317.post-1140834170785331832006-02-24T21:22:00.000-05:002006-02-24T21:22:00.000-05:00Jason,maybe.Jason,<BR/>maybe.wellis68https://www.blogger.com/profile/06087588494600746854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11928317.post-1140823604952711172006-02-24T18:26:00.000-05:002006-02-24T18:26:00.000-05:00who said I had a problem with "repent, for the Kin...who said I had a problem with "repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand?" If you read my early posts the very sentence is what promted me to begin this blog. T'shuva (repent in hebrew) is not far removed from Tikkun Olam (healing the world), which is what I am discussing, in a 1st century understanding. Repentance is first and formost what we are called to but you must understand that repentance is returning to the way things were originally intended to be... this means healing the world... social change. So I guess you could say that repentance is what my last few posts have been about. <BR/><BR/>by the way in response to your question about "making things right" I mean Tikkun Olam (healing the world), bringing our exsistence to what God intends it to be. this is very wholistic. Think of it this way: imagine a problem in the world... imagine if that problem did not exsist... that's making things right, making a world without problems (this is a very simple explaimation there may be a lot more to it).wellis68https://www.blogger.com/profile/06087588494600746854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11928317.post-1140816275084264322006-02-24T16:24:00.000-05:002006-02-24T16:24:00.000-05:00inheritor,ahhhh... Isaiah 58... " I want you to sh...inheritor,<BR/>ahhhh... Isaiah 58... " I want you to share your food with the hungry and to welcome poor wanderers into your homes. Give clothes to those who need them, and do not hide from relatives who need your help."<BR/>Music to my ears. thanks so much for reminding us of this amazing chapter. <BR/><BR/>Have you ever noticed the reference to this chapter in the book of John?<BR/><BR/>John says: "And the light shineth in darkness..." (1.5)<BR/><BR/>this may refer us to what Isaiah says: "Feed the hungry and help those in trouble. Then your light will shine out from the darkness..." <BR/><BR/>Maybe the light is feeding the hungry and helping those in trouble. That's what Jesus was all about.wellis68https://www.blogger.com/profile/06087588494600746854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11928317.post-1140806421513545532006-02-24T13:40:00.000-05:002006-02-24T13:40:00.000-05:00I agree Wes. If you leave out the "social gospel",...I agree Wes. If you leave out the "social gospel", then you are leaving out the "incarnational" aspect of the church, the Body of Christ. God very much cares about our bodily and emotional and spiritual needs and he uses us as agents to minister to others. This seems very clear to me on reading Isaiah 58 (among many, many other places).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11928317.post-1140801526318894732006-02-24T12:18:00.000-05:002006-02-24T12:18:00.000-05:00Jason,I agree Jason, You can't leave out Jesus pla...Jason,<BR/>I agree Jason, You can't leave out Jesus plan to seek and save. But I think we have a very western idea of that. we see it as a salvation of only one part of us; our soul. But our soul cannot be emancepated from the rest of us lest we fall into dualism. Jesus wants to save all of me my whole self; body, soul, spirit (they're all one anyway). We can't just take some parts of Jesus' mission statement and leave out the others. Jesus wants to seek and save that which was lost, he wants to save our whole selves, He wants to bring social change. The gospel is about resoration, healing, acceptance, love, etc. If we don't demonstrate those things we're misrepresenting the Christ who came to heal the world. <BR/>Shalom<BR/>Weswellis68https://www.blogger.com/profile/06087588494600746854noreply@blogger.com