Tuesday, April 05, 2005

What do I say about Jesus?

This blog might cause you to wonder what I say about Jesus. I quote Him and obviously hold what He said as true, but I realize I have not really revealed what I think of Him yet. I consider myself to be a Christian ( a follower of christ, not any of the common yet false conceptions of Christianity you might have). I believe that Jesus was the messiah that the Jewish people were expecting. He Came to redeem the world. He came to establish an everlasting covenant. He came to declare his kingdom, a perfect Kingdom. I believe the scriptures are true and I depend on them for my Ideas and my philosophies on life. I don't think He came to preach condemnation, I don't think He want to judge us and tell us what we're doing wrong. I don't think He's an arrogant self seeking man who wants us to pay for what we did to Him on the cross. I believe He lived a magnificent life of healing and teaching and loving. I believe that He has asked and called us to be like Him and live a life of compassion and love. I believe that He died and died as the lamb as the scapegoat sacrificed for the sins of His people so that no more would we be bound to it and no more must we sacrifice and bear the guilt of our sin. We are forgiven. I believe He rose again after He was crucified and buried for three days. I believe He rose again to establish a Kingdom that would not be overthrown or conquered and that would be rid of all the impurities that cause our life today to be a struggle. I believe His kingdom is at work here and will one day be eternal and in it's perfection.

8 comments:

Danny said...

1. I consider myself to be a Christian ( a follower of Christ, not any of the common yet false conceptions of Christianity you might have).

What would you say is essential in being a Christian? Justify your answer with at least one verse from each book of the Bible to make sure you answer is Biblically correct.

2. I believe that Jesus was the messiah that the Jewish people were expecting. He Came to redeem the world.

Is the Messiah that you are talking about: “I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing. For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come.” –Isaiah 63:3-4

3. He came to establish an everlasting covenant.

What is the significance of an everlasting covenant?

4. He came to declare his kingdom, a perfect Kingdom.

How can a kingdom be perfect? Isn’t a kingdom always kept at bay by either a dictatorship or politics? How will Jesus do away with this in heaven?

5. I believe the scriptures are true and I depend on them for my Ideas and my philosophies on life.

What do you believe makes your particular scripture truth? Does this say that all other religious traditions untrue? If so, do all people who do not believe in Christ end up in Hell? What about Gandhi? Did he end up in Hell because he didn’t make an intellectual assent to Christ?

6. I don't think He came to preach condemnation, I don't think He want to judge us and tell us what we're doing wrong.

Then refute John 12:48.

7. I believe that He has asked and called us to be like Him and live a life of compassion and love.

What do you by “be like him?”

WES ELLIS said...

1. Justify your answer with at least one verse from each book of the Bible to make sure you answer is Biblically correct.

ha ha funny. I think I'll give you a shorter answer... deal with it. A christian life is one seeking to become like Jesus. Taking His teachings seriousely.

2.Is the Messiah that you are talking about: “I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing. For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come.” –Isaiah 63:3-4

Well I'm honestly not that familiar with the cultural context of this verse but my unprepared answer would be that this verse is simply a way of "showing something" it's to make a point so to speak. so yes this is that messiah. Jesus. one who will be victorious over His enemies.

3. well the covenant made in moses was broken. God promised a marriage covenant that would not be broken. see ezeliel 16:60 (the whole chapter is amazing)

4. How can a kingdom be perfect? Isn’t a kingdom always kept at bay by either a dictatorship or politics? How will Jesus do away with this in heaven?

Think a little Danny... you're just bugging me on this one. the Ultimate and ideal kingdom would be one of peace, power, everlasting, unconquerable, without poor people or sick people. These concepts are idealy where the whole idea of a kingdom comes from. That's the Kingdom I'm talking about.

5. I don't believe that believing the scripture is true is the end all about heaven and hell. It's much deeper than an "intellectual ascent to Christ"

6. Then refute John 12:48

No. I can't refute it. I believe it's true. I just don't see it as a "You're all gonna burn in Hell" speach. He's speaking truth in compassion here. I think.

7. I mean living out His mission of redemtion. we are "sons of light" we must walk in the light. take on Christs purpose. see John 12:36.

Danny said...

1. Is the reason you can’t answer because you don’t know your own Holy Scriptures well enough? That, in my humble opinion, is outrageous.

2. Well, since you don’t want to look it up I will give you a little bit of context. But we have to start in verse one. It states that someone is coming from “Edom.” Edom as a “constant enemy of Israel despite its common ancestry (Genesis 25:23).” In the story it the literary format is that of a “watchman on the wall of Jerusalem, seeing Edom approaching and fearing that the Edomite king in his crimson garment is going to attack.”

Instead of seeing the Edomite king it is “I” (v. 1). It is a prophecy against the land of Edomite. For other prophecies see (Amos 1:11, 12; Obadiah 10, 11, Malachi 1:2-4).1 So, basically what you’re telling me is that God’s main purpose is coming back is going to be brutually killing people in his “garments stained crimson?”

3. I believe you are speaking of the Mosaic covenant made in Exodus six where he says he has “heard the groaning of the Israelites” (v. 5). The theological purpose of Deuteronomy obviously plays in here. After the giving of the Decalogue in chapter five of Deuteronomy Moses states in chapter six the famous statement that Israel should “hear” and “Be care to obey so that if may go well with you.”

Ezekiel makes the breaking of the covenant clear when he says that “you have despised my oath by breaking the covenant” (16:59). God then goes on to say that he is going to restore the covenant that took place “in the days of your youth.” My question to you is simple, what does he mean by “days of your youth?”

If he is referring to an Edenic covenant (the beginning of the time) then man was considered perfect because they had free will. How can God made a place perfect (heaven) and still give us free will?

5. Well then, what about your scriptures makes them truth? Why would your religion deny all others?

7. What exactly is Christ’s purpose? What does that have to do with being sons of light?

WES ELLIS said...

I' only gonna answer a couple of these questions.


you said "So, basically what you’re telling me is that God’s main purpose is coming back is going to be brutually killing people in his “garments stained crimson?”"

actually I kinda like this contextual meaning. In a sense yes that's what I'm talking about. He's coming from edom and Bozra after killing and enialating ruthlessly the enemies of His people. That's what His people were yerning for so the language here would have been very powerful. I like it. Jesus doing away with our enemies. Think about it.

You said "How can God made a place perfect (heaven) and still give us free will?"
Yes I think so. Remember I believe Heaven is the dedeemed "here" I don't think we'll be a different as we usually think. I'll have my same passions and interests. I will be able to choose through out my day I simply will be a redeemed me. me without the struggle of sin. What do you think?

WES ELLIS said...

I' only gonna answer a couple of these questions.


you said "So, basically what you’re telling me is that God’s main purpose is coming back is going to be brutually killing people in his “garments stained crimson?”"

actually I kinda like this contextual meaning. In a sense yes that's what I'm talking about. He's coming from edom and Bozra after killing and enialating ruthlessly the enemies of His people. That's what His people were yerning for so the language here would have been very powerful. I like it. Jesus doing away with our enemies. Think about it.

You said "How can God made a place perfect (heaven) and still give us free will?"
Yes I think so. Remember I believe Heaven is the dedeemed "here" I don't think we'll be a different as we usually think. I'll have my same passions and interests. I will be able to choose through out my day I simply will be a redeemed me. me without the struggle of sin. What do you think?

Danny said...

Originally posted by Wes:
"Jesus doing away with our enemies. Think about it."

Isn’t there a contradiction here between the old “I’m all about wrath” God and the new “love your enemies” God? It almost appears to be a complete contradiction. Is there a way that you can reconcile the two apparently contradictory versions of God in the Old and New Testament?

Danny said...

Originally posted by Wes:
Remember I believe Heaven is the redeemed "here." I don't think we'll be as different as we usually think…I will be able to choose throughout my day I simply will be a redeemed me…Me without the struggle of sin. What do you think?

First of all, I would like for you to attempt to make a case that the kingdom is heaven actually is going to be here on this place. Make the argument from scripture using quotes from every applicable book in the New Testament (and from the Old if it applies as well).

After you have done make a case against the idea that heaven will actually be on this earth. Use the same method as above.

Ashley said...

Revelation 21-22 (too much to type, please forgive me)

2 Peter 3:10

When it says "the earth and all of it's works will be burned up" Burnt was an old King James translation, although in older more reliable manuscripts it is translated into "the earth ans all if it's works will be found" The term found implies that the quality of our works will be laid bare, discovered for all to see. Here Peter see's more of a purging of the evil things of the earth apposed to the annihilating fire.

(Michael Whittmer, Heaven is a Place on Earth, pp. 202)